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Libya victims fund question. Compensation claims Westminster

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Sceala Clann T.D.
Location: Belfast and Donegal.

Sceala Irish Craic Forum Discussion:     Libya victims fund question. Compensation claims Westminster

For compensation claims - victims should head to London - ask those in power in Westminster and Whitehall for redress of the terrorist crimes they orchestrated.


Only when the British people understand the evil and state terrorism that their system of government and crown has orchestrated and still orchestrates, only when they understand that the so called royals have been decorating and honoring murderers of innocent Irish and other people for centuries.

From - Sir Francis drake slave trader and mass murderer of women and children

To Sir Frank Kitson who besides his now media claimed orchestrating of torture in Kenya! was by other accounts busy training british loyalist terrorists and mayhem in Ireland
Anyone seriously think that little rat of a man who if unarmed would have lasted two minutes orchestrating terrorism and torture in Kenya! Would have dared even set foot in Ireland or Kenya!
He was the Queens heavily armed Bully boy!
That cowardly little rat of a man who was honoured by his queen and country!
Kitson is currently facing legal attention along with the British MoD

The british system will ensure he does not actually face justice!
Any more than their bully boy killers of Bloody sunday never will or many other british terrorists in Ireland ever have.

But! Only when these supposed heroes and so called royals are made to face the same justice!
Will the British people finally see beyond the perverse hypocrisy of their own government and crown and media!
And start to ask questions that will finally put a stop to their crown governments role in crimes against humanity.

A relative of a victim, should seek a subpoena and get the british queen in court, demand to know what the british queen knew and why she chose to decorate murderers!

Far fetched?

British courts and media have by default stated she has decorated sex pests and probably child abusers!
Rolf Harris Commander of the British Empire
Sir Jimmy Saville
Sir Cyril Smith
To name but a few of the Queens own personally honoured scum

Assorted evil this so called queen (descended from German organised crime family, life spent living in luxury on the proceeds of past organized crimes) has decorated.

Irish Community Images
Ever since the peace process.
The British secret services have leaked claim after claim of how they effectively controlled all the combatants during the war.

Of course the British secret services - as we Irish unfortunately know too well - are past masters of mis-information and political illusion. Lying and deceit.
But Loyalists and die-hard Unionists have swallowed their masters claims - hook line and sinker -about the British owning the IRA. They choose to ignore leaks and claims the British also ran the Loyalist terrorists - the murder gangs.
Unfortunately few Unionists are free or honest thinking enough to even wonder a logical conclusion from these British boasting leaks.
People should start to question the logical conclusion of the British leaks and claims - because -
If the British military intelligence leaks claims are true - or even mostly true -then why are any of the victims looking towards Libya for compensation?
Irish Community Images
For compensation claims - victims should head to London - ask those in power in Westminster and Whitehall for redress of the terrorist crimes they orchestrated.

Some other questions asked of this one sided victims process.

Jennifer McCann.
We are talking about facts, not allegations, about the Glenanne gang. The fact is that serving members of the UDR and RUC and security service agents were directly involved in murders and bombings, including the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, in which 33 people lost their lives, and the Miami Showband killings.

For people who are a bit confused about collusion, I will explain how it works. The Force Research Unit, better known as FRU, was a unit of the British Army that was responsible for the recruitment and running of British agents, including Brian Nelson, to murder Irish citizens. That unit, in turn, was answerable to the task co-ordinating group, which comprised the RUC’s Special Branch, the Chief Constable and other intelligence services. That group was accountable to the joint security committee, which is now known as the joint intelligence committee. The committee is directly responsible to the British Prime Minister and has overall control over all security issues. Therefore, the British Cabinet, including the British Prime Minister, is aware of everything that is happening in intelligence circles.

In the 1980s, loyalists were armed with weapons that were smuggled in from South Africa. I have not heard many Members talk about that today.

Francie Molloy

I do not see it as unionist victims. I listened to Mr Donaldson and I did not hear any acknowledgement of the victims of British atrocities, the victims of collusion or the victims of the regiment of which he was a member, a regiment that so badly abused so many people that it had to be disbanded such was the disrespect in which it was held across the community, just like the organisation that it replaced, the B-Specials.

The B-Specials were another loyalist paramilitary organisation — a Protestant force for a Protestant people — and one of the first organisations to commit murder, killing a young Catholic man at a peaceful protest in Armagh city. Agents of the British Government carried out a long list of atrocities in which the British Government and the British Army, FRU, MI5 and other undercover forces colluded.

Others acted indirectly. Loyalist paramilitaries and the UDR colluded to murder and to set up others to be murdered. The murder of Catholics under the UDR across the murder triangle is notorious because it was clear that it involved a mixture of RUC, UDR and loyalist paramilitaries. Some come from the constituency that Mr Donaldson represents, yet I have never heard him speak out in any way whatsoever on behalf of those victims.

The motion is one-sided because it does not deal with any of the issues for which the British Government were responsible. Mr Donaldson does not call on the British Government to seek compensation from those who armed loyalist paramilitaries; he does not ask the British Government to seek compensation from Ulster Resistance, which the party to which Mr Donaldson now belongs was key in setting up. Some were also clerks and secretaries of the Ulster Clubs, which was part of Ulster Resistance. Mr Donaldson might have been in a different party and wearing a different beret at that time. He was wearing the green beret of the UDR while his colleagues were wearing the red berets of Ulster Resistance; however, they were part of the same force, all colluding in bringing about the murder of Catholics across mid-Ulster and beyond. They operated not only in the North but across the border, and the Dublin Government, despite their silence, could be asked to compensate the victims of the murder and mayhem that was created by the collusion between the British Government and loyalist paramilitary forces.

It is important that we state today that all victims are equal. What victims want is compensation from the British Government for what they did to citizens here, but they also want the truth, which is a form of compensation. The British Government could easily end all the inquiries by simply telling the truth. Directing loyalist paramilitaries did not happen with a few renegades around Lisburn or Portadown or mid-Ulster.

Gerry Adams
Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Sinn Féin opposes the motion. It is unfair and partisan. Let me say for the record that Sinn Féin is not opposed to any victims lobbying any Government anywhere in the world for compensation. Let me also say that I am very mindful of the suffering of those families whose loved ones were lost or injured as a result of IRA actions. I believe that it is the responsibility — certainly a part of the responsibility — of republicans to acknowledge that and to do all that we can to build a better society for all the people of this island. I also believe that others need to do the same.

It would have been better had the Members who proposed this motion consulted with the other parties to bring forward a motion that would have united, rather than divided, us and that would have reflected the suffering of all victims. The motion suggests that there is a hierarchy of victims, and that is wrong. The only way that political parties, in particular, and society in general can deal properly with all these issues is on the basis of equality of treatment for all. The motion, therefore, fails on that most important hurdle.

It is understandable that some of the families who have been bereaved or injured focus entirely on those who are responsible for their loss; that is their right. However, we who are in political leadership should be concerned with representing all citizens and all victims. Many of those who have suffered most are among the most magnanimous and forgiving of our people. We in this Assembly should follow that example.

The motion calls upon the British Government to apply diplomatic pressure on Libya. The proposers of the motion must surely appreciate the inappropriateness and hypocrisy of any British Government making or supporting such a demand of any other Government, given the London Government’s long history of involvement in violence in Ireland. That includes the killing of citizens from Derry to Ballymurphy, from Newry to the Shankill, and on many other occasions.

It includes directing, arming, training and providing information to unionist death squads, and involvement in numerous cover-ups, including, as was revealed recently, the Loughinisland killings. Remember, a LeasCheann Comhairle, taxpayers’ money was used to fund those killings. What greater scandal is there? Is that not a matter of concern for the Assembly or the DUP?

I will give one brief example. In the summer of 1985, with the full knowledge of British intelligence, a British agent Brian Nelson was sent to apartheid South Africa to get weapons. To finance the trip, the UDA, the UVF and Ulster Resistance, which was established by the DUP, carried out a bank robbery on the Northern Bank in Portadown, which netted £325,000. That was used in South Africa to purchase a shipment of arms. Those arms were brought back to this country, and in the three years after that, unionist paramilitaries killed 224 citizens and wounded countless others.

Although I understand why our friends in the DUP moved the motion, I put it to them that no unionist leader has ever acknowledged the role of the state or political unionism in fomenting and sponsoring conflict in our country.

The rejection of the Eames/Bradley group’s report and its proposal for a recognition payment is another example of that, and I am disappointed that the Member for Lagan Valley Jeffrey Donaldson reinforced that point today. This is not about viewing the person who was killed as the only victim; it is about the families of those who have been killed. There is a misguided notion that one set of families can be designated as unworthy or of lesser value than another set of families.

State killings and collusion, which were an administrative practice and part of the British Government’s strategy, have to be dealt with. That Government — the very Government that the proposers are asking to lobby the Libyans — refuse to co-operate with inquiries, hand over files or publish reports. That is evidence of their unwillingness to end the cover-ups and take responsibility.

We have to deal with all the issues. There are big challenges for us, and I hope that our unionist friends can join with us in meeting those challenges.

The SDLP’s refusal to sign a petition of concern today is another example of that party’s short-sightedness and lack of vision. Go raibh maith agat.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party)

From the outset, I wish to make it clear that, with caution, the SDLP backs the motion. An SDLP amendment to the motion was not accepted by the Speaker, and we believe that that amendment would have more generously reflected the situation with respect to victims and survivors. The SDLP amendment acknowledged that violence and human rights abuses had been perpetrated not just by the IRA using Libyan weapons, but also by agencies acting on behalf of the British Government, and by all the other paramilitary groups. In general, we believe that part of the fabric of a healed and reconciled society is the acknowledgment of the pain and the experience of the other, however it arose. A broadly phrased motion, which included all of those who have suffered violence at the hands of an illegal group, or through the actions of a Government, would have been a better statement from the House.

That is particularly important in the run-up to Christmas, because the British Government are currently consulting on the proposals of the Eames/Bradley group. They have made it very clear that they will legislate on those proposals only if there is political consensus, which is code for the lowest common denominator. For elements of the RUC, the security services, the British Army, and the leadership of the IRA, the UDA and the UVF, the lowest common denominator is the suppression of truth and the denial of justice to the victims’ families.

Therefore, it is important to send out a broader and particular message to the British Government that all victims of violence and human rights abuses have to be acknowledged and their entitlements have to be respected, which includes their entitlements to truth and justice. The danger is that a partial, selective motion such as this sends out a message to the British Government that plays into the hands of those in illegal groups and state organisations who have anything but truth and justice on their minds. However, the SDLP still supports the motion because, on balance, victims and survivors need to be acknowledged rather than further victimised by the playing of politics on the Floor of the Chamber. We will not go down that road.

In one way, I find it difficult to accept some of the DUP’s good faith in this regard, because many cases have been taken by victims and survivors to secure truth and justice. Many victims, including victims of state violence, have gone to court to assert their entitlements and have gone all the way to the European court to assert their entitlements to due process and truth and justice, but I have not heard from the DUP on any of those cases. When victims have taken legal action to protect their entitlements, the DUP has not stood up and supported them along that path.

Towards the end of his speech, Gerry Adams said that the SDLP was being short-sighted and lacked vision. He beat up on the motion, as well he might, because it calls on the British Government to apply diplomatic pressure on Libya. That is the same Government that Gerry Adams says should be persuaders for Irish unity. He is prepared to rely on the British Government in that regard, but beats up on them in respect of Libya. It is the same British Government that Gerry Adams relies on when it comes to the role of MI5 in the North, yet he beats up on the British Government when it comes to their role in respect of Libya. Gerry Adams said that we should not call on the British Government because they lack standards in respect of their behaviour and have a culture of cover-up and disclosure. In that regard, he speaks some truth. However, he should apply the same principles to the illegal organisation known as the IRA, which killed half of the people who were killed during the Troubles in the North, including hundreds of so-called innocent civilians. When will the truth and disclosure of all that come out at the hands of the IRA?

Glenane Gang
Ex-British agents ‘amazed’ by findings of bombings inquiry
Sunday, April 08, 2007 - By Colm Heatley
Two former British intelligence agents whose information led to a re-examination of the 1974 Dublin-Monaghan bombings said they were ‘‘amazed’’ the inquiry by senior counsel Paddy McEntee did not find evidence of collusion in the Garda investigation into the atrocities.

John Weir, a convicted loyalist killer and former RUC man, and Fred Holroyd, a former British Army intelligence service captain, have independently alleged the attacks were carried out with the collusion of the British government.

They were not interviewed by McEntee.

McEntee forwarded both men copies of his inquiry into the Garda handling of the DublinMonaghan bombings weeks before it was made public.

The pair were shown aspects of it which related to their past evidence.

Both men have consistently alleged that the bombings, which claimed 33 lives, were organised and executed by senior members of the British establishment and that they had personal and regular contact with some of those involved.

It was primarily their allegations which led to calls for a re-examination of the attacks in the early 1990s.

Weir, a former RUC man, was convicted of the sectarian murder of Catholic shopkeeper William Strathearn in 1977 in Ballymena, Co Antrim.

He worked with the Glennane gang, an Armagh-based loyalist militia controlled by the British Army, which a joint Oireachtas report, made public last year, said was responsible for dozens of sectarian murders in the Republic in the early 1970s.

Weir said: ‘‘I understand Paddy McEntee’s report was specifically focused on the Garda investigation into the bombings, but if you want to get to the truth you have to look at who ordered them, who planned them, who gave them the go-ahead.”

‘‘He forwarded a copy of the report to the Irish embassy where I live and I told him a number of ’facts’ he had included about me were totally wrong.

‘‘I have evidence that the security forces in the north of Ireland knew in advance of the Dublin-Monaghan bombings, and they were carried out by loyalists working for the British and were planned by the British. I have names and dates, and all of that information, and I have absolutely no reason to lie.

‘‘But to get to the truth you have to look much higher than the people, the loyalists who carried them out - this goes to the top of the British establishment.”

Among those who Weir says was responsible for ensuring the attack went ahead was the late Robin ‘The Jackal’ Jackson, a notorious Portadown-based UVF leader, and another man, a UDR member, who was also employed by the British intelligence services.

Weir said he offered McEntee the chance to interview him when he was in Dublin almost three years ago, but McEntee refused the opportunity.

‘‘I am sure I would have had information that would have been useful to him,” he said.

Fellow whistleblower Fred Holroyd, a former British Army intelligence captain, told The Sunday Business Post, he was ‘‘fed up giving information to inquiries that didn’t look in the real direction’’.

‘‘With the Dublin-Monaghan bomb I can remember how it was talked about beforehand, and how it was common knowledge in certain intelligence sections of the British Army that the attack was going to take place.”

Both men said they would co-operate with any future inquiry into the Dublin-Monaghan bombings.
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