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Minimum wage Ireland more Immigrants more unemployed

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Sceala Irish Craic Forum Discussion:     Minimum wage Ireland more Immigrants more unemployed

Ireland's crazy government thinks that lowering the minimum wage is going to encourage more jobs and reduce unemployment.
Reducing the minimum wage in a Ireland within the EU, is going to have the exact opposite effect.

Who unemployed and sane, is going to leave the security of social welfare for a full time job that pays out less. Not many Irish and none of the thousands of unemployed foreign immigrants already here for a certainty. Foreign immigrants who already make up 20% of the unemployed and who soak up over a third of all rent allowances.

But some will take a job at any wage! even for 4 euro a hour.
Even more new unskilled immigrants will come and take a job at any wage at zero risks for them.
Coming from Eastern European countries that the EU allow to pay low to no welfare, so these economic chancers come to soft Ireland where they know they can't go wrong, at least not until Ireland literally bursts.

Or thousands of Asian so called 'language students' will come and take any wage, because most are really here to stay long term at zero risk. Maybe one of the Thousands of sham marriages, modern slave trade that Shatter does not care about to act. Shatter is far too busy making laws for Irish deserters.

None of these economic chancers are brave new emigrants taking any economic risks what so ever.
But who can blame them when Ireland is such a soft touch, compared to their own.

Ireland's supposed brave hard working immigrants in context
Remember all the Dell jobs lost in Limerick to Poland!
The full time rate at the new Polish factory pays less than Irish dole. None of the thousands of unemployed Polish on welfare in Ireland will be rushing home.

Immigrants will only take any wage when it suits, knowing there is zero risk for them.
How can there be any risk in a Ireland that provides welfare to immigrants who just have to turn up.

Ireland offers welfare to immigrants at rates higher than full time employment typically offers in their own nations, nations that provide little or no welfare.
Zero risk, these are not brave new world immigrants, most are economic chancers.

In a recent documentary about the Dell factory closure. A Polish economic immigrant who was working at Dell Limerick, who is now redundant and living off Irish social welfare, was interviewed.
The Polish economic migrant said that she had thought about going back to her home town in Poland, where the new Dell plant now operates.

The Polish economic migrant said that she was not going to go home and work for the 3 to 4 hundred euro p month for a full time job in the Poland Dell plant. So she actively chooses to remain in Ireland on state welfare, and is now on some free training scheme from the Irish state, all paid for by the Irish.
Zero risk again for these supposed hard working immigrants.
The Polish economic migrant said that she missed Poland because her aged Father still lived there, and she was trying to convince her elderly father to come to Ireland as well.
The documentary closed with captions, one of which stated that the Polish economic migrant's father was now also living in Ireland.
We were left to guess who was now paying for his welfare.

Economic immigrants good for the economy or society?
Sure planned immigration can be good for any economy, immigrants that are genuinely needed in a nations economic plan, immigrants that add value to the economy. Can potentially be a plus to society.

But how can unplanned unregulated immigration ever possibly lead to anything but chaos and social divisions?

The USA is not a melting pot, it is like London full of dangerous distinct ethnic areas and ghettos.

Was immigration on this scale (a % unprecedented in the world), planned in Ireland?
The once many extremely naive - who claimed it is was only racists who questioned the number of immigrants coming in Ireland! Even most of them now agree that - the Irish Government had no immigration plan what so ever! they did not even have a economic plan.
What we had was blind greed being driven on by opportunists, who made money from unprecedented % numbers of economic migrants.
Developers made millions selling property in a false and obscene supposed property boom. We can now all see this property price bubble was insanity and a disaster for Ireland. We know this insanity was allowed and actively encouraged by Irish politicians.
Politicians who care mostly for themselves, who act in short term self interest more than the public well being.

Greedy business owners are the other big winners, they now have a never ending supply of naive and servile workers that can be replaced as soon as any complains or seeks any real job security.

When the naive now conclude that there was no immigration plan, they also agree by default, that what we experienced in Ireland was not a planned beneficial or natural inflow of immigrants.
We had a politically inspired race to the bottom and complete lack of care for people, Irish or foreign.

We had unprecedented levels of immigrants, the vast majority going into low skilled jobs.
In the case of construction, the immigrants very often got jobs they were not properly qualified to do.
It was a completely false jobs market, created by politicians for the benefit of greedy business owner and property speculators! Greedy people who proved that they had no plan for Ireland, for the Irish, or any genuine care for immigrants!

Paying little or no tax in this false market, the immigrants knew it was zero risk for them. Plus they heard that the crazy Irish would pick up the tab, when the false job was gone.

Facts about the supposed hard working immigrants in Ireland
Most welfare fraudsters are foreign immigrants.
Over 20% on the Dole are foreign immigrants.
Over 30% collecting rent welfare are foreign immigrants.
These figures are indisputable facts from the government offices involved.
These figures show that immigrants are not always good for a nations health.
They prove that as a matter of general fact
Foreign immigrants do not work harder
Foreign immigrants are not more skilled
Foreign immigrants are not more prepared to do the jobs natives will supposedly not do.

Short term, Immigrants are prepared to take lower wages, worse conditions and just about any job. But only when it suits their own longer term plan

The figures prove lies of all the usual arguments for more and more immigrants.
Immigrants are used by greedy employers, the only people to benefit by the open door. Foreign Immigrants in Ireland's case, was at unprecedented levels compared to anywhere else in the world. The open door policy for foreign immigrants has proven a total disaster for Ireland.

Who is going to come for low paid jobs, even at 4 euro a hour?
A new supply of Foreign Immigrants, from the Eastern European states and their never ending supply of low skilled and unemployed. The EU will encourage these economic migrants from Eastern Europe to take every job Ireland is able and stupid enough to create for their so called free market.

The future Ireland
The young Irish with ambition and pride will leave Ireland for Australia and Canada. They will leave behind a Ireland destined to be a nation populated by a extremely high percentage (if not a majority) of immigrants.
Unless Ireland gets out of the EU, Ireland a nation primarily managed by the Irish, will soon be over.
If Ireland does nothing, just sits back in the crazed PC EU, the Irish can expect more and more immigrants to come. People from third world nations will come to escape their hell holes, and in such numbers to make Ireland itself a hell hole to live in.
Ireland has only seen the start, more and more immigrants will come.

Just in the wider EU, there are literally tens of millions of Romanians, Bulgarians and Turks waiting for the green light. Economic migrants will come and bleed what is left of Ireland dry. Make our state systems third world, unable to cope.
Unprecedented % Economic migrants will turn Ireland - a small distinct culture, a friendly nation for visitors, into another multi-cultural dysfunctional society.

If we stay in the EU, that is Ireland's future, not possibly or likely! it will be Ireland's future.
The Irish will be a ethnic minority in their own land. How is that fair or sensible.
A ancient people who suffered for centuries under colonial oppression, will give away everything, hand over their freedom and culture to faceless bureaucrats in Brussels, who do not care about the Irish or Ireland.
This is Ireland's future - unless we get out of the EU. In the EU we can not make our own common sense and fair laws.

It does not have to be this way, we can change our future. The examples are there - Iceland, Norway & Switzerland are members of the European Economic Area (EEA), but not the common policy. They have preferential trading arrangements with the EU. They each export more into the EU than Ireland does!
Ireland and the EU myth, The Irish are being fed lies about the benefits of the EU

Today we heard news that Ireland's education system is suffering. The standards are now much lower than a decade ago. Of course RTE will not dare even ask is this because of unprecedented levels of economic foreign immigrants.
Ireland goes from 5th place among 39 countries ten years ago to 17th place now, inside ten years. The same decade that masses of non English speaking economic migrants flooded into Ireland.
The price of the EU open door policy for Ireland is so high, not only in pure financial terms.
This education cost is just the first of the obvious costs, more will become apparent even to the Liberal NIMBY.

Eastern Europeans immigrants to Ireland or the UK, know that they can not go wrong, it is a risk free move. They get any job in Ireland, take it for a year and then if you get unemployed, simply apply for Irish social welfare. In most instances Irish social welfare, designed for the native population, pays more than working full time in their own Eastern European nations.
That is why so many foreign immigrants, in unprecedented numbers in Ireland, are staying here in Ireland.

This is why the Irish who want to work, the brightest are now leaving Ireland, but the unskilled immigrants are staying and more are coming.
Why are unemployed foreign immigrants not going home? Why are foreign immigrants still coming.
Because Ireland acts like a benefactor for foreign immigrants.

The vast majority of foreign immigrants come to Ireland for economic reasons.
For example the social welfare in Poland, which is generous by comparison to Latvia, Lithuania, Romania and others

Reports show that Poland has more than 2 million unemployed.
Since January 1 2010 the benefit is 717PLN gross monthly.
Poland pay their unemployed just 179 euros a month for 3 months and then a reduced amount for 3 more months

About 80 per cent of the unemployed aren’t even eligible.

Polish and most Eastern Europeans get next to no social welafre from their own nations, but their own cynical MEP's demand more charity hand outs from little Ireland. (1)

What a naive social system Ireland now has, the unskilled jobs taken up by economic foreign immigrants who could not care less about Irish people or Ireland.
On minimum wage economic foreign immigrants have to date, not paid a cent in tax, they have just taken from the Irish welfare system.

And they are still coming. More and more immigrants are going to come until the system crashes, or the law is changed.

Ireland should not pay for any foreign immigrants welfare, or unemployment benefit, their own home nation state should pay. Ireland should pay for our own citizens, even the ones the government has betrayed and forced to emigrate.
If Ireland did this, and started caring for Irish citizens only, Lenihan would not be able to cynically use Irish emigration to claim reductions in jobless numbers. Lenihan smiled today as he quoted the falling unemployment numbers. How can he possibly conclude that jobs are being created. The man has no shame.

These are new PPS numbers issued this year.
Irish Community Images
Polish MEPs claim Irish civil servants acting illegally
21 November 2010 By John Burke Public Affairs Correspondent

A group of Polish MEPs have made an unprecedented attack on Irish civil servants by accusing them of acting illegally.

The three MEPs said that Irish welfare authorities were discriminating against Poles by refusing welfare claims made by Polish people living in Ireland.

The claims have been dismissed by both the EU’s employment and social affairs commissioner, Laszlow Andor, and the Department of Social Protection in Ireland.

In a series of written complaints to the European Commission, Konrad Szymanski MEP said that a large number of Polish citizens who had been living in Ireland for more than two years were being ‘‘denied access to the social benefits and services to which they are entitled’’, because they ‘‘allegedly’’ failed to meet the ‘habitual resident’ requirement.

Under the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005, a ‘habitual resident’ is someone who has been in Ireland for a continuous period of two years.

Szymanski said that appeals lodged with the Social Welfare appeals office had proved fruitless.

‘‘This issue is increasing in scope, and the commission therefore needs to be made aware of it," he said. Marek Henryk Migalski, another Polish MEP, said that there was increasing evidence of Poles living in Ireland who had reported the ‘‘illegal treatment which this group of citizens has endured’’.

‘‘Denying Polish immigrants their right to benefits is not only discrimination, but above all deprives them of the wherewithal to live if they lose their jobs or are seeking employment," he said.

A third MEP, Malgorzata Handzlik, also wrote a similar letter to the European Commission last month, expressing her ‘‘concern to learn of the widespread refusal to grant social security benefits to Polish nationals living in Ireland on the grounds that they do not meet the condition of permanent residence in that country, even though any person staying in Ireland for more than 24 months automatically fulfils that condition’’.

She said that she feared that the practice could lead to a violation of the freedom of movement and discourage citizens of other member states from settling in Ireland. Such practices are contrary to EU legislation.

A spokesman for the Department of Social Protection said that all schemes administered by it had qualifying conditions, including, in some cases, PRSI contributions, in others, a means test and, in a number of schemes, the habitual residence condition (HRC).

‘‘These conditions are to maintain the integrity of the system and ensure that income support is provided to those most in need," the spokesman told The Sunday Business Post.

‘‘As stated in the European Commission reply, Ireland is fully compliant with the requirements of EU legislation in this regard."

There has been a significant decline in literacy standards among Irish 15-year-olds over the past ten years, according to a highly regarded international education survey.
The OECD's latest PISA study ranked the reading ability of Irish 15-year-olds in 17th place out of 39 countries, compared to 5th place in 2000.
Tánaiste and Minister for Education Mary Coughlan has said she is disappointed with the outcome.
Every three years the OECD measures the performance of 15-year-olds in reading, maths and science across dozens of countries.
In its latest survey, Irish students fared well in science, once again significantly above average. Achievement has fallen in maths, from average to below average.
However, the really significant decline is in reading - from 5th place among 39 countries ten years ago to 17th place now.
The Department of Education commissioned Irish and Canadian researchers to find out why. Their research says changes in the school-going population may have had some influence.
There are more migrant children, fewer early school leavers and a greater inclusion of students with Special Education Needs.

Think this a exaggeration, that Ireland has nothing to learn?

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