Irish Forums Message Discussion :: Queen of England Connections to Brian Boru Irish High King

irelandIrish Forums :: The Irish Message Forums Irish Communityireland
Irish Forums :: The Irish Message
Forums About Ireland and the Irish Community, For the Irish home and Abroad. Forums include- Irish Music, Irish History, The Irish Diaspora, Irish Culture, Irish Sports, Astrology, Mystic, Irish Ancestry, Genealogy, Irish Travel, Irish Reunited and Craic

Search Irish Websitesireland
Irish Forums Bookmark The Irish Community Forums

Queen of England Connections to Brian Boru Irish High King

       Queen of England Connections to Brian Boru Irish High King Queen of England Connections to Brian Boru Irish High King Information
Post New Irish Message Discussion In Sceala Irish Craic Forum    Reply To Irish Community Message About Queen of England Connections to Brian Boru Irish High King In Sceala Irish Craic Forum
Irish Forums :: The Irish Message Forums- Sceala Irish Craic Forum- Queen of England Connections to Brian Boru Irish High King
Irish Author Queen of England Connections to Brian Boru Irish High King Sceala Irish Craic Forum Irish Message
Kate English

Sceala Clann T.D.
Location: Canada






Sceala Irish Craic Forum Discussion:     Queen of England Connections to Brian Boru Irish High King

I have been reading some claims that the Queen of England has some connections to Brian Boru of Ireland.

Should be no surprise because everyone of us will have connections back to famous people in History, and our own connections would be far more and credible to Brian Boru and back to even earlier Irish Kings.

Royals no matter where they claim title, are only chancers, just people, they are not really Gods chosen. So of course they have ancestors and descendants like the rest of us.

Brian Boru was the Irish High King of Ireland. I suspect the connections to Brian Boru are more imagined and convenient than real connections. Made to divert Irish peoples minds away from the more obvious European organized Crime family connections of the English Royals.
Saxe Coburg and Gotha family members were planted all over Europe. They are infamous criminals who have made billions from serious organized crimes.

Anyway Brian Boru would have literally millions of people who are alive today who are directly descended from him and his family. Many of us Irish, if not all Irish, are genuinely connected to Brian Boru and with far more lines of connection than a mostly German English royal.

Ronald Reagan
On his visit to Ireland, the former President Ronald Reagan was also told he was a direct descendant of Brian Boru the Irish High King.
Like a lot of such claims, I expect the details are patchy and contain some convenience, as well as hopeful assumption to dubious links. Interesting none the less.
Descendants of a Irish High King
Tradition states that it was Brian Boru who decreed that surnames should be fixed for clans and septs, showing a common ancestoral relationship from a prominent ancestor. But this is only tradition, and it didn't take hold widely for several more generations. Not even all of the descendants of Brian Boru took the name Ua Briain (O'Brien). But if one's O'Brien ancestry comes from Munster and particuarily counties Clare, Limerick and Tipperary, the surname if not actual DNA, would usually descend directly from the great High-King Brian Boru.
Brian Boru in relation to Niall another Irish High King
Estimates that two to three million males around the world share this same direct Irish ancestor.
So with another two to three million females sharing this same Irish Kings ancestor.
So as Irish news press get carried away with it all, the reality is very plain.
The Queen of England is far from unique. Brian Boru is thought to have even more known descendants than most of that period. Not just former President Ronald Reagan, who by some claims was a direct male line descendant. President Barack Obama has recently been told that he is also a descendant of the Irish High King Brian Boru
Irish Community Images
So in real perspective, if you are Irish and reading this, your family were once just as likely, if not more credibly, also blood linked or associated to Brian Boru, or other Irish King.
These powerful individuals had many people named after them. Reading up and copying parts on here and elsewhere about Irish Clans. Irish family history is much more complicated than most ever imagine. It seems many if not most members of a clan were not in fact direct blood linked to the Chief (Taoiseach), but they all claimed to be his, or he claimed them. That was how the Irish clan system worked apparently.
What is a known fact is DNA testing for direct male blood lines can only be positively proven by the male line Any connection claimed for the Queen of England to Ireland's High King Brian Boru are no more than claims.
The Queen of England Connections to Brian Boru can not be proven, they would have to obtain DNA from her male line and somehow from Brian Boru or known and proven children. That is obviously impossible for any of us, regrettable but convenient for Irish tourism.
So any connection from anyone to Brian Boru or anyone of that period is conjecture at best.

Who was Brian Boru.
Brian Boru - Brian Bóruma mac Cennétig, (c. 941–23 April 1014), (English: Brian Boru, Middle Irish: Brian Bóruma, Irish: Brian Bóroimhe), was an Irish king who ended the domination of the High Kingship of Ireland by the Uí Néill. Building on the achievements of his father, Cennétig mac Lorcain, and especially his elder brother, Mathgamain, Brian first made himself King of Munster, then subjugated Leinster, making himself ruler of the south of Ireland. He is the founder of the O'Brien dynasty.

The Uí Néill king Máel Sechnaill mac Domnaill, abandoned by his northern kinsmen of the Cenél nEógain and Cenél Conaill, acknowledged Brian Boru as High King at Athlone in 1002. In the decade that followed, Brian Boru campaigned against the northern Uí Néill, who refused to accept his claims, against Leinster, where resistance was frequent, and against the Norse Gaelic kingdom of Dublin. Brian's hard-won authority was seriously challenged in 1013 when his ally Máel Sechnaill was attacked by the Cenél nEógain king Flaithbertach Ua Néill, with the Ulstermen as his allies. This was followed by further attacks on Máel Sechnaill by the Dubliners under their king Sihtric Silkbeard and the Leinstermen led by Máel Mórda mac Murchada. Brian campaigned against these enemies in 1013. In 1014, Brian's armies confronted the armies of Leinster and Dublin at Clontarf near Dublin on Good Friday. The resulting Battle of Clontarf was a bloody affair, with Brian, his son Murchad, and Máel Mórda among those killed. The list of the noble dead in the Annals of Ulster includes Irish kings, Norse Gaels, Scotsmen, and Scandinavians. The immediate beneficiary of the slaughter was Máel Sechnaill who resumed his interrupted reign.

The court of Brian Boru's great-grandson Muirchertach Ua Briain produced the Cogadh Gaedhel re Gallaibh, a work of near hagiography. The Norse Gaels and Scandinavians too produced works magnifying Brian Boru, among these Njal's Saga, the Orkneyinga Saga, and the now-lost Brian's Saga. Brian Boru's war against Máel Mórda and Sihtric was to be inextricably connected with his complicated marital relations, in particular his marriage to Gormlaith, Máel Mórda's sister and Sihtric's mother, who had been in turn the wife of Amlaíb Cuarán‎, king of Dublin and York, then of Máel Sechnaill, and finally of Brian.
Cultural heritage and descendants of Brian Boru

The descendants of Brian Boru were known as the Ui Briain and more often today O'Brien, and hence the surnames Ó Briain, O'Brien, O'Brian etc. "O" was originally Ó which in turn came from Ua, which means "grandson", or "descendant" (of a named person). The prefix is often anglicised to O', using an apostrophe instead of the Irish síneadh fada: "´". The O'Briens subsequently ranked as one of the chief dynastic families of Ireland.

One needs to reflect on any claim to Royal Irish lineage, and place the claim in context of how claims to Royal power were often made in Ireland and across Europe.
Dubious claims for power, were often accompanied by supposed ancestral links to previous and older rulers. Many imposters made claims to Power by virtue of their supposed linage, in order to trouble the incumbent.

This short study on another Irish King perhaps shows just how many million would also be related to Brian Boru.
Millions of Men May Be Descended From Irish King, Study Says

James Owen
National Geographic News
January 20, 2006
Up to three million men living around the world today could be descended from a fifth-century Irish king, according to a new study. Research suggests as many as 1 in 12 men in Ireland carry the genes of Niall of the Nine Hostages, bolstering claims that the ancient warlord founded a dynasty that dominated Ireland for centuries.

Some historians doubt Niall's existence, comparing his legend to that of King Arthur. But scientists at Trinity College Dublin in Ireland say a distinctive genetic signature on the male Y chromosome, which is passed down from father to son, leads to Niall or some similar figure. Niall had 12 sons, according to folklore, and took nine key hostages, including Saint Patrick, as way to subdue opponents and consolidate power. Writing this month in the American Journal of Human Genetics, researchers said Niall "resided at the cusp of mythology and history, but our results do seem to confirm the existence of a single early medieval progenitor to the most powerful and enduring Irish dynasty."

The study was based on the DNA samples of 800 males across Ireland. "We used a genetic fingerprint in the Y chromosome that was sufficiently detailed that you wouldn't expect very many men to have the same one," said Dan Bradley, a genetics professor at Trinity College Dublin. In nothwest Ireland (map), one in five men bore the same distinctive genetic marker, the team found.
"That part of Ireland was influenced by a certain dynasty called Uí Néill [descendants of Niall]—a group of lineages that held sway to a greater or lesser degree for almost a thousand years," Bradley said.
"The area of this Y chromosome coincides geographically with the greatest influence of these groups," he added.
He says the genetic match-up was also significantly higher in men bearing surnames linked to different branches of Uí Néill.
"Irish surnames are typically based on people who are the eponymous ancestors," said Bradley, whose own name claims ancestry to Niall. Other examples include Boyle, Egan, Flynn, Gallagher, McGovern, McManus, Molloy, O'Connor, O'Reilly, and Quinn.

The approximate age of the Y chromosome was gauged by looking at genetic mutations that accrue over time. "Mutation occurs more or less like a clock," Bradley said. "The chromosome's age was consistent with someone of Niall's vintage, about 1,700 years old." The same chromosome was also found in almost 17 percent of males tested in western and central Scotland and around two percent of New Yorkers of European origin. The team estimates that two to three million males around the world share this same Irish ancestor.

The study suggests a link between powerful men and a strong genetic legacy, as more powerful men would have commanded access to more women.

"Polygamy was widespread, even in post-Christian Ireland," Bradley said. "Earlier Irish customs were quite resistant to change. Divorce was allowed, and concubines."

One 15th-century nobleman with Uí Néill lineage, Turlough O'Donnell, is known to have had 18 sons with 10 different women. His sons gave him 59 grandsons.

Other DNA studies centering on ancient leaders have produced similar results.
Genghis Khan, the Mongol emperor who conquered most of Asia in the 13th century, has nearly 16 million male descendants living today, according to a study published in the American Journal of Human Genetics in 2003.
His grandson, Kubilai Khan, who established the Yuan Dynasty in China, had 22 legitimate sons and was reported to have added 30 virgins to his harem each year.

Another study published last year suggests that 1.5 million Chinese men are directly realted to Giocangga, grandfather of the founder of the Qing dynasty.
Qing nobility were an elite class that had wives and concubines, according to Chris Tyler-Smith, a geneticist at England's Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute and a researcher for National Geographic's Genographic Project.
Because of the nobility's privileged status, their children would have had a good chance of survival, Tyler-Smith notes.
Queen of England Connections to Brian Boru Irish High King
Dan Bradley says such genetic fingerprinting is potentially a very useful historical tool.
"It gives scientific support for medieval genealogies which I wouldn't necessarily have believed beforehand," he said.
"There's nothing written about Niall until hundreds of years after the time he would have lived, so you're talking about a character who was almost Arthurian," he added.
"There's a sort of credibility train that I think many people, including myself, would have jumped off before you got to him."

Reading that the Queen of England has some Connections to Brian Boru Irish High King of Ireland. On his visit to Ireland, the former President Ronald Reagan was also told he was a direct descendant of Brian Boru the Irish High King.
Like a lot of such claims, I expect the details are patchy and contain some convenience, as well as hopeful assumption to dubious links. Interesting none the less.

Forum Message Irish Topic Alert

The Irish Community have posted
7 REPLIES TO THIS TOPIC
for logged in members to view.
Back to top  Login here and be redirected to this TopicLogin here and be redirected to this Topic RegisterRegister

    Post New Irish Community Message In Sceala Irish Craic Forum    Reply To Irish Community Message About Queen of England Connections to Brian Boru Irish High King In Sceala Irish Craic Forum    Irish Forums :: The Irish Message Forums -> Sceala Irish Craic Forum
Page 1 of 1
If Seeking Information About Queen of England Connections to Brian Boru Irish High King, Try Searching Irish Websites

Related Irish Topics
In a little Pub in London song and lyrics
Freedom's Sons
UFOs in Ireland
Every Day Look For Something To Smile About
Can people change
Queen of England Connections to Brian Boru Irish High King
Log in
Username:
Password:




SearchSearch
FAQFAQ

Search For Irish Websites
general Irish Websites search for information about Ireland and the Irish
Irish Websites

Research Irish Ancestors
Specific Irish heritage search engine, search for your Irish family surname roots, find out if your family have a Irish clan organisation.
Irish Websites
Irish Weather
Ireland Weather
Weather in Ireland
Ireland Weather forecast