Irish Forums Message Discussion :: Ptolemy map of Ireland world map, more myth making than map

irelandIrish Forums :: The Irish Message Forums Irish Communityireland
Irish Forums :: The Irish Message
Forums About Ireland and the Irish Community, For the Irish home and Abroad. Forums include- Irish Music, Irish History, The Irish Diaspora, Irish Culture, Irish Sports, Astrology, Mystic, Irish Ancestry, Genealogy, Irish Travel, Irish Reunited and Craic

Search Irish Websitesireland
Irish Forums Bookmark The Irish Community Forums

Ptolemy map of Ireland world map, more myth making than map

   Irish Movies    Ptolemy map of Ireland world map, more myth making than map Ptolemy map of Ireland world map, more myth making than map Information
Post New Irish Message Discussion In Sceala Irish Craic Forum    Reply To Irish Community Message About Ptolemy map of Ireland world map, more myth making than map In Sceala Irish Craic Forum
Irish Forums :: The Irish Message Forums- Sceala Irish Craic Forum- Ptolemy map of Ireland world map, more myth making than map
Irish Author Ptolemy map of Ireland world map, more myth making than map Sceala Irish Craic Forum Irish Message
Brian T Dublin

Irish Forums Member
Location: Dublin






Sceala Irish Craic Forum Discussion:     Ptolemy map of Ireland world map, more myth making than map

The mentions here and elsewhere of Ptolemy and his map, his location of Ireland and names.

Turns out we are all following for a elaborate myth not map making.

The maps now widely claimed and accepted to be the work of Ptolemy, were in fact creations of the 15th century.

Turns out talk of any map of Ireland by Ptolemy is more myth than map.
Like the Turin shroud it is Bullshit reinvented centuries after the period by people who wanted to convince others.
The concept is a Anglo Norman, a English and later British Crown unionist and colonialist inspired fake.
Much like Jimmy Saville was British national hero for all his living years, and accepted without a question as a British hero, favoured friend to the "Royals".

The Ptolemy map is a myth. A selective convenient invention made by Colonials should not be any major shock to those who can think and are able to cross reference basics!
Considering that most of the world was not even known in the time of Ptolemy. America Australasia etc..

So it is really pathetic then that some people clearly want to imagine some great context in some supposed literal map, or any credibility.
Who do and why?
British unionists do and do because the supposed maps of Ptolemy can be read as implying some ancient British connection.
They want to believe and promote this concept despite the historical resources that have so far failed to show that the British is a ancient concept and did not even exist on recorded paper before James 1 , and then only in obscure colonial adventurer books and not in any wide social sense.
But despite the historical reality, many so called historians use such terms as a matter of fact, and in doing so inspire the ignorant and ignorance by design or default!


The maps now widely claimed and accepted to be the work of Ptolemy, were in fact creations of the 15th century.


Ignorant simplistic extreme British nationalists promote the supposed maps and supposed claims of Ptolemy as supposed evidence of Ireland being a british island. Why? so they could steal with excuses!

However, there are actually no accounts, as in zero, as in none what so ever actual historical evidence of the period that remotely suggests that the people of the Island of Ireland ever considered themselves even remotely as one with any other Island, let alone british (effectively a 18th century invention).

As for the supposed map (that does not actually exist as such) of Ptolemy.
Get real, this is total fabrication.
At best what Ptolemy actually left were a record of co ordinates.
But even if he did, the coordinates are probably not even concerned with this part of Europe.

Ptolemy included Thule in the chapter on his widely assumed coordinates for Britain, although the coordinates Ptolemy gives have been mapped to the area around modern Kristiansund in western Norway.

Fact.
Ptolemy never made a map of Ireland, or if he did none has ever been found. Neither do any originals exist of the time of even coordinates.

What we have are actually interpretations made well over a thousand years later, that claim to be the work of Ptolemy.

There is no actual existing proof of a map or coordinates of Ptolemy's actual lifer time what so ever.

Ptolemy has been used by unionists and pro British historian to distort a supposed natural link between the islands of Ireland and Britain. Ptolemy has been used by the bias and ignorant to show the two islands are British, they claim it is proof.
Only one problem for such bias supposed historians, - the maps were not made by Ptolemy.

The maps now widely claimed and accepted to be the work of Ptolemy, were in fact creations of the 15th century.

Ptolemy lived in the 1st and 2nd centuries!


The maps claimed for Ptolemy is a bit like some young child today drawing a sketch of a basic motor car, and others then {for cynical purpose} making connection with someone who is thought to have left instructions before Brian Boru!
Stupid of course! but not as stupid as the many who just accept without question!

Yet some so called historians write of this Ptolemy Irish map as if it is not nonsense, but a reference!
And presumably many nave have such maps on their walls, imaging they represent the most ancient map of Ireland!

Ptolemy facts.
It turns out that no maps survive that can actually be attributed to Ptolemy. Not a single map.
Ptolemy never made any map or at least no such map made by him exists or has ever been claimed to exist, except in simple ignorance.
Ptolemy never named the islands Pretanic, that idea was added more than a millenia after Ptolemy lived.
Ptolemy never even set foot in Ireland.
His accounts were a collection of reports from a unknown variety of separate sources .
These ideas are no more his than - you collecting newspaper articles and saying they are your work.

What exists are peoples views of what they imagine or claim Ptolemy meant.

The maps now widely claimed and accepted to be the work of Ptolemy, were in fact creations of the 15th century.

All of these maps and views many now accept as historical evidence, were in fact made many centuries later, a thousand years after Ptolemy lived.

Can you imagine anyone today using the directions of someone who lived a thousand years ago.
Would you rely on directions that had been translated several times, from languages you do not understand, certainly not the specific ancient dialect, and you have no way of proving the translators themselves were fluent in.

The maps were made only after translation from another translation of another, they are always subjective and often ridiculous. As Columbus would discover.
These maps were generally made by people on a commission, most often by the Pope of the time, a Pope who gave titles to Anglo Norman Kings and later to English kings like Henry v111


Who was Ptolemy.
Greco-Roman scholar Claudius Ptolemy (or Ptolemaeus; ca. 90-168), who lived in the Egyptian port city of Alexandria, home of a marvelous ancient library that was destroyed in the Third Century.
Ptolemy is best known to the modern world as the "author" of the prevailing medieval theory that the Earth was the center of the Universe.
Not exactly a genius to be regarded hence forth there fore as some fountain of knowledge or credence

The theologically satisfying "Ptolemaic" system remained essentially unchallenged until the publication in 1543 of Copernicus's De revolutionibus orbium coelestium, which demonstrated that a Sun-centered model of the universe more accurately described the perceived movements of the heavenly bodies.

So we can conclude that Ptolemy was (understandably) quite ignorant of the world, most of the world was in fact unknown and much guessed at.

A good example of the accuracy and confusion of even the best attempts to recreate Ptolemy is - none other than Columbus.
His map makers were encouraged by the Papacy to use supposedly Ptolemy inspired maps. Columbus got lucky when he was completely lost by such maps.
Translations and recreations of Ptolemy supposed accounts underestimated the size of the Earth by a sixth. Columbus's contemporaries thought the Eurasian landmass was as much as 230 degrees wide, placing Japan 50-70 degrees west of the Iberian coast (it is actually about 210 west). Japan does indeed appear to be roughly 60-70 degrees west of the European coast in a globe made by Martin Behaim in Nuremberg in 1492 (while Columbus was still at sea). As a result Columbus calculated that Japan and East Asia would be found roughly where the West Indies are. This explains why Columbus died still believing that he had not discovered a New World but achieved his goal of establishing a short route between the opposite ends of the old one.

Ptolemy's Geography
The Science of the Earth's Surface
Ptolemy, who gave Greek astronomy its final form in the second century A.D., did the same--and more--for geography and cartography. His massive work on the subject, which summed up and criticized the work of earlier writers, offered instruction in laying out maps by three different methods of projection, provided coordinates for some eight thousand places, and treated such basic concepts as geographical latitude and longitude. In Byzantium, in the thirteenth century, Ptolemic maps were reconstructed and attached to Greek manuscripts of the text. And in the fifteenth century, a Latin translation of this text, with maps, proved a sensation in the world of the book. A best seller both in the age of luxurious manuscripts and in that of print, Ptolemy's "Geography" became immensely influential. Columbus-- one of its many readers--found inspiration in Ptolemy's exaggerated value for the size of Asia for his own fateful journey to the west.

Ptolemy never did name the islands of Ireland or Britain as Pretanic, that idea was added more than a millenia after Ptolemy lived.
Ptolemy never even set foot in Ireland or is reported to have sailed close by. His accounts were a collection of reports from a unknown variety of separate sources .
These ideas are no more his than - you collecting old newspaper articles and saying they are your work.


Ptolemy the real story
Ptolemy never actually made any map of Ireland.
Ptolemy never made any map of Ireland or is even known to have inspired a known map of his time. No such map exists until over a thousand years later.
Irish Community Images
Ptolemy made a collection of written ideas, a treatise, not a map. This manuscript treatise was supposedly re-discovered in 1300. I state supposedly because fake artifacts fool experts even today, so they can not possibly be certain of a supposed discovery made in the 1300's.

What we do know as fact about the Ptolemy supposed map of Ireland.
The oldest actual accounts are not until the 9th century and are in Greek.
The most important medieval Latin translation of the "Almagest," which is found in many manuscripts, was made from the Arabic in Spain in 1175 by Gerard of Cremona, the most prolific of all medieval translators from Arabic into Latin.
Translations into Latin, probably under direction of the Papacy, The Pope were not made until the 15th century
The maps now widely claimed and accepted to be the work of Ptolemy, were in fact creations of the 15th century.

Not the work or thoughts of Ptolemy at all.
The treatise was not translated into latin or a map before the 15th Century.

These creations were made by people who had very different views of the world and simply could not have the same mind as someone living a thousand years before!
By then the world view and dominant cultures, such as the Norman, were firmly in place across much of Western Europe.
Vikings Norse Normans or English never existed in the time of Ptolemy

The much quoted map of Ptolemy map of Ireland world map, was not made until after this discovery. Circa 1465 and Nicholas Germanus, Almanac for Pope Paul II.
The English monarchy purposely read the accounts to further Colonial claims and it is their use of the accounts that has so many people simply accepting Ptolemy ancient map of Ireland, not any real credible history.

Forum Message Irish Topic Alert

The Irish Community have posted
19 REPLIES TO THIS TOPIC
for logged in members to view.
Back to top  Login here and be redirected to this TopicLogin here and be redirected to this Topic RegisterRegister

    Post New Irish Community Message In Sceala Irish Craic Forum    Reply To Irish Community Message About Ptolemy map of Ireland world map, more myth making than map In Sceala Irish Craic Forum    Irish Forums :: The Irish Message Forums -> Sceala Irish Craic Forum
Page 1 of 2
If Seeking Information About Ptolemy map of Ireland world map, more myth making than map, Try Searching Irish Websites

Related Irish Topics
In a little Pub in London song and lyrics
Irish Wedding Traditions
UFOs in Ireland
Every Day Look For Something To Smile About
Can people change
Ptolemy map of Ireland world map, more myth making than map
Log in
Username:
Password:




SearchSearch
FAQFAQ

Search For Irish Websites
general Irish Websites search for information about Ireland and the Irish
Irish Websites

Research Irish Ancestors
Specific Irish heritage search engine, search for your Irish family surname roots, find out if your family have a Irish clan organisation.
Irish Websites
Irish Weather
Ireland Weather
Weather in Ireland
Ireland Weather forecast